Jesse Friedman:Welcome to Impressive Hosting, where we uncover the core tenets of great WordPress hosting. I’m your host, Jesse Friedman. Before we dive in, remember to check out impressive host. It’s where you can comment on episodes, ask follow-up questions, and submit questions for upcoming guests. You’ll also find all our links to follow, like and subscribe wherever you listen. With me today is part two of a conversation I’m having with Konrad Keck. He is an entrepreneur and founder of many different projects. The things we’re focused on right now though, are PanelAlpha. We’re gonna be talking about conrad.ai and web hosting today probably as well, but Conrad, you’re running a whole bunch of other different projects as well. But you and I got together I think it was a couple years ago now at like, I think it was CloudFest maybe. And then you had me on your podcast. So you’re a seasoned professional, you know, podcasting. Actually, believe it or not, the neon light here is something that I got because of the background that you had when you and I first met. So you have that pretty cool green light behind you right now, but at the time you had like a darker kind of background. And you had this like bright pink purple light that was like a juxtaposition between that dark and that bright. And I loved it. I loved that look. And I said I need, I need something bright and fluorescent against something that’s contrasting. And so I went and found a neon light. And so I owe this, the audience owes it to you that we have this cool background.

Konrad Keck: Yeah, it’s awesome actually. And I was exactly, I was looking at your, and I was thinking, yeah, maybe we should get you know, Web Hosting Today or some branding out there. So I can get something from your idea as well.

Jesse Friedman: Well, if you want, I’ll, yeah, yeah. This is like a fake neon. It’s LED and the funny thing is it’s remote controlled. And luckily it hasn’t happened on the episode yet, but I think the remote control is actually a radio signal that is controlled also by like passing trucks and like CB radios or something is interacting with it because randomly throughout the day when I’m working, it’ll just kick on for absolutely no reason. But luckily it hasn’t kicked off while we’re on the show. So I might advise getting a different sign from someone else if you go down that road.

Alright, so last episode we were talking about PanelAlpha. We were talking about the control panel industry and the consolidation of hosting companies and what we’re seeing. Same thing inside of panels. We were talking about you know, helping companies out there who might be thinking about starting a hosting company, how the barrier of entry is much lower now and they can actually get into it. And leverage things like WP Cloud and PanelAlpha to launch things faster and to rely on the technology that’s being provided as a service by companies like Automattic and PanelAlpha. But then the last thing that they need to solve for is support. And you know, we’ve had other folks on the show who’ve emphasized the super important need for great support. I think back to a conversation of a previous episode that we had with Tom Fanelli from Convesio, and he was talking about how you know, they do support a little bit differently in that they bring on larger hosting customers, and so they don’t have the massive volume of some like larger hosting company out there. And that allows them to continue to focus on providing bespoke support. And so they bring everybody into a Slack channel and they’re able to do it that way. And I think it’s probably pretty similar to the feel that an agency would probably be providing today in 2025 to their clients that they, you know, they provide an open channel and a way in which they can communicate directly with them. But as you start to open a hosting company and maybe you’re selling plans for 15, 20, $25 a month, you’re gonna bring in more volume. You’re gonna have to scale up that support. And so that’s a challenge. It’s not easily met, but you’re working on a solution for that. Is that right?

Konrad Keck: Exactly. So the thing is that in the web hosting, I think, you know, we were talking about it in our episode is that. If you look at web hosting, what it is, a web hosting company is, a web hosting company sets up their servers, but you don’t no longer need your servers if you would be using WP Cloud, right? But it’s like you set up some sort of environment that the customer really don’t feel that much. Of course, if it’s slow, then it’s slow. But with let’s say WP Cloud, it’s gonna be fast, right? So you have that covered, that the environment is fine. And I think number one differentiator between hosting providers is support because who are gonna have some issues, unfortunately it’s happening. Remember that customer is not. You know, they don’t understand everything. They’re gonna have some issues, they’re gonna have some problems, and you need to provide them support. If you don’t provide it and you don’t provide it very fast or very efficient, then you may be losing customers. And that’s what we have seen in the industry. And you know, when the whole ChatGPT era came out, and I think it was like two years ago, 2023, 2022 maybe, I instantly knew that the way that it worked, and it’s a lot around you know, connecting multiple data sources and giving you some answer. There is a need for a product to take care of support properly. And I was actually surprised because it’s been two years and we eventually started making a product. I found someone who had some experience with AI, and I said, yes, let’s do it because there was no solution on the market that’s handling it properly. Because like if you hear all those headlines about AI is gonna you know, get rid of people in certain areas. In certain industries, like this is corporate, this is typical corporate thinking about support, right? Let’s get rid of people and let’s save money on support. And in many cases there are some companies who introduce AI support and instead of that, you can call them on or you can talk with a real person, get a solution faster. There is a bot that you need to, you know, get through a series of questions until they will maybe get you to a real person. And it got people, it gets people frustrated because it’s, this is not how you should approach support. AI is a tool that can enhance people. It is the same like with coding or whatever. It’s like you cannot say that, make me a website and it’s gonna make you a website. You need to know the basic, there needs to be human to operate it. And I think it’s exactly the same how it goes with support. So we’ve decided to make a platform that enhances people, make them much more efficient. You know, in the essence, it connects with your, it learns from your previous tickets, it connects to your knowledge base, to your website. It can connect to your hosting environment, for example, and collecting all these data. It learns your behavior and tries to act like you, but you still need to operate it, and you basically get faster response, right? You can get, let’s say 80% good response. You correct it here and there and send it to your client so it saves you time. What we’ve also noticed, because we were using it ourselves, is that technical people hate doing support. You know, typical nerd, let’s say in the industry is not very social, right? So they know how to fix things on the server, but they don’t like to write the long email. Let’s be real. That’s the typical behavior of a nerd, right? So they have a tool now that they can, you know, very quickly write down what they want to say to the client, and it gives them a nice, really, like a solid level answer to the customer. So it reduces going back and forth. The answers are much more let’s say polite, and you know, increases the level of support that you’re doing.

Jesse Friedman: So are you training, are you training this AI on hosting support for WordPress specifically? Or wider than that.

Konrad Keck: Right now. Okay, so it’s still early. We are onboarding first customers in August, so we are still probably by the end of the year, the product will be in its full shape. It’s not WordPress specific, although we are thinking about it because again, given that WordPress is 40% of websites it, it’s just necessary that we have something around WordPress. You know, if you ask ChatGPT about WordPress, it’s gonna get you some answers. So it has the common knowledge about things, plus it gets access to the hosting environment. So it checks what’s happening out there and gives you an accurate response to help with the problem.

Jesse Friedman: So essentially, if you were trying to point a domain at the correct CNAME for your host or something like that, potentially this could actually go check and see your current settings and say, Hey, no, you actually need to do it this way. And so it’s not providing you,

Konrad Keck: Exactly.

Jesse Friedman: okay. So that’s quite amazing because, yeah, because like the more frustrating thing that you get from these AI support bots now is that it’s very good at reading a manual, but I can read a manual too. I can read a help document, and so just having it spit back to me a help document’s not very helpful. But the idea that it personalizes its response based on the settings that you’ve configured. That’s brilliant. That’s fantastic. And then what happens in terms of integration? Does this operate within Zendesk? Does it go to email? Like how are you, what’s the mechanism for the actual communication?

Konrad Keck: Exactly.

Jesse Friedman: Okay. So that’s quite amazing because the more frustrating thing that you get from these AI support bots now is that it’s very good at reading a manual, but I can read a manual too. I can read a help document, and so just having it spit back to me a help document’s not very helpful. But the idea that it personalizes its response based on the settings that you’ve configured. That’s brilliant. That’s fantastic. And then what happens in terms of integration? Does this operate within Zendesk? Does it go to email? What’s the mechanism for the actual communication?

Konrad Keck: Right. So in terms of support, we are adding more and more integrations. Zendesk is one of the examples and it loads a widget in your browser that gets the data from Zendesk then all the data sources and gives you the reply that you can then put into the reply field and edit it before sending to the customer.

Jesse Friedman: Right, so in the way this works, if you were the hosting company, you still have a support human who is interacting with the AI and the customer, but it’s basically accelerating and multiplying their abilities rather than replacing them.

Konrad Keck: Exactly. And what we also notice is that we were using it in ModulesGarden, so even though it is not deeply integrated, it cannot connect to someone’s WHMCS system and read what’s there. We are selling modules, but it doesn’t have access to that module installed. And still, if someone has an advanced question about how to set up automatic installation in some of the modules, our support that was on level one and usually when there was an advanced question, they were just asking level two support how to do it. And the ticket was going to level two support. They had their own queue and it could take even 24, 48 hours to answer. Now, it can generate a very nice response. They usually just confirm, is this okay? Yes, this is okay. And they can deliver much more advanced answers within just a few minutes instead of overloading level two or level three support, which is exceeding our expectation given that it doesn’t have direct connection to the module. So it can even work with our software. And it’s pretty universal.

Jesse Friedman: I’m laughing because the sign just flickered for absolutely no reason. And we actually talked about it for the first time ever, and it’s starting to act up. So maybe the AI bots are listening and interacting. They liked what you said. The thing for me is that right now, the way in which I interact with different companies is that they have this live chat bot. Live chats are super popular now. They put an AI in front of it, and then you have an interaction with that AI and then you have to escalate to a human being. But there’s no blending. There’s no, it’s very binary. It’s either you’re talking to an AI or you’re talking to a human and there’s nothing in between. And it’s funny because one of the things that gets me is that at Automattic, we have happiness engineers. We don’t have customer service reps. We have happiness engineers. And the reason is because it’s an important differentiator. It’s not just jargon, it’s actually that these human beings who are working day in and day out have a mission to engineer happiness for people. And so they’re trying to find opportunities to delight, make people feel special, that they feel heard. And it’s interesting because we don’t provide at Automattic, we don’t provide phone support. But we do provide very carefully well documented, good email based support and live chat. And so these individuals have become very good at providing Automattic and WordPress specific support. And the reason for that is because I feel Automattic does something a little bit differently than a lot of hosting companies out there, which is that they invest in people. Whereas a lot of hosting companies, the biggest ones out there, I’ve noticed a trend where they don’t invest in the people as much. What they invest in is the training. Then what that allows them to do is to ramp up or ramp down the amount of customer service reps they have very quickly, because their training documentation is so good that you can bring in somebody off the street and then by tomorrow they’re providing some level of support to their customers. That works in some cases, but when you get AI coming in and that’s able to read that documentation, I think that gives, if you layer these things together, that gives the opportunity for the hosting company to leverage AI to provide the easier, more straightforward support, and then invest in people to provide the best tier two or higher support. And I get into support situations with major corporations outside of hosting enough that I have enough opinions about it. First of all, I think I’ve said this before on the show, but if anybody’s listening and you’re providing hold music for phone support, you need to replace that crappy audio with something more soothing, right? Think about the rushing of waves or whale songs or something like that. Because what I’m forced to listen to is this really low bit rate, bad elevator, jazz music, which only just infuriates me while I’m waiting on hold. But in terms of live chat, I think one of the things that could happen is that we could be a little bit more explicit about leveraging AI in those moments where we’re waiting. So if you try it with AI and it’s not working. And you’re having this documentation based conversation with this AI and it’s not getting you where you need to go, then you often end up kind of taking that shortcut the same way that when phone support was jumping to press zero to actually talk to a human, and everybody would pick up the phone and just hit zero until they got a hold of somebody. Now, I think with live chat, people are just saying human, give me a human. I just want a human. I need a human now.

Konrad Keck: Yeah.

Jesse Friedman: And in the live chat, the AI bot will try to reason with you, but it doesn’t always work and you end up just getting a human anyway. But you know what would be really cool is if the AI was able to say, okay, I’m getting you a human. It’s going to take five minutes. In the meantime, would you like to hear a joke? Not really. I don’t want to hear a joke, but why don’t you tell me more about what you’re experiencing? So maybe there’s a chance that we can get something done in that five minutes and get you out of here faster. Because I think what happens is that it’s this period where it’s like I no longer want to talk to the AI, I want to talk to a human. Okay, fine. We break that connection. The AI is no longer interacting in any way, and then you’re just kind of sitting in this holding pattern, which by the way, the next most infuriating thing is that somebody will come online. And you’ve been waiting for 5, 10, 30 minutes, and they’ll give you 30 seconds to respond to them, and then they’ll cut the chat. So if you can keep the person engaged, and that can be a variety of things. It could be educating them on things, it could be telling them about new features that are coming down the pike. Think about it as this opportunity where if you’re waiting to get into a room with a CEO and have a good conversation with someone directly. The person in the waiting room could be telling you about what’s going on with the business or giving you up to date information or whatever. I think if we could bridge that gap, we’d be, it’s another opportunity to delight. So anyways, long story short, I’m making a request to you that if you get to that point where you’re integrating AI with live chat, think about it from that perspective. Maybe you don’t hang up on the AI just yet. Maybe you give that as an opportunity to have a conversation, to create a better experience while you’re waiting for a human.

Konrad Keck: This is not the first time that I hear this, and that’s exactly what we are thinking about. So how to, because people hate AI bots now. For me, if I see that AI is writing and get me to human, get me to human, get me to human until it finally gets me to human, right, and that’s what people very often do, is because from customer perspective, if you have an AI bot, they feel like you are screwing them. You are saving money. It’s like this corporate thinking that was the first adaptation of AI. Let’s replace people. As a result, you forget about your clients what they actually need, and they don’t need AI. They need a solution for their problem. So if you start thinking about your customers, AI can be something that gets them an answer faster, but you cannot say that, hey, it’s AI. You need help. Here’s our AI chat. Now it’s like you’re on the page, you’re looking for something. It can suggest you, hey, need something more about the pricing? Need a special offer, give me some details, right? Or give me some details. I’m gonna send it to our support team. Maybe try to analyze what’s happening. Same goes, we had an idea that when someone is opening a ticket, it can give them a window and give them an answer right away. Hey, ticket has been submitted. Our team will get back to you, but in the meantime, when they are answering, maybe this will help you.

Jesse Friedman: Yeah. Right.

Konrad Keck: that, yes, this helped me, this is exactly what I needed, then the support ticket can be closed and the support team doesn’t have to spend time on it. But don’t make it pushy. Don’t force your customers to use AI. Your customers don’t know prompts in AI. They just want to talk with a person and get a solution. So start from your customers and then utilize AI as a way of solving their problems, not as a cost-cutting opportunity.

Jesse Friedman: Yeah. You know what’s funny is because a hosting company or any company in this space, you’re talking about cost savings, right? If you think about it from that perspective, that company feels that they have the right to save as much money as possible and that they can do anything they can to kind of streamline that process and save. But it’s very rare, I think, for them to be reversing that and thinking about how do I cut the cost that the customer’s paying in terms of the time that they’re spending waiting. Right. And you know, like when I contact, I pick on Verizon all the time because I use Verizon Wireless, I have Verizon Fios, and they have like the worst support that I’ve experienced in a long time, and it’s still always bad because it’s just this thing where they just do not care how long you wait at all. It doesn’t matter to them. And then at the same time, like they’re willing to cut you off the second they come online. If this support was able to go the other way around and say like, not only are we gonna save ourselves money by employing these things, but we’re gonna save you time. Then you’re aligning yourself with the success of your customers, which is a common theme on this podcast all the time as well, is that make sure that you’re doing those things in that way so that like when you’re defining a KPI internally, don’t think about it just purely like how much money can we save or how do we reduce the per-ticket cost, but like, how do we reduce the time that the customer’s spending in that moment? And the really cool thing about this idea would be that a customer would be able to say, you know, have the confidence that they’re not wasting their time. Right? Because the reason that they’re asking for that human is because they have a lack of confidence in the AI to solve their problem. And they don’t wanna spend 15 minutes with the AI just to be jumping into a human line and then have to wait another 20, 30 minutes for a human to arrive. So they wanna shortcut that just to get straight to the human. So if you could, it’s kinda like a fast pass at Disney, right? Like if you could get to the front of that line in the sense that like, okay, we’ve called in a human, they’re on their way in the meantime, you know, tell me about what’s going on. If that customer has that confidence that someone’s coming and that they’re not wasting their time anymore. Maybe they’re willing to open up and then maybe you can close the ticket before that human arrives, which actually does save money for the hosting company because they’re able to, you know, close it before they’re getting the expensive part of the support going, which is the human interaction.

Konrad Keck: Psychology, right? A lot about that, but again, starting with customer as the center and not the other way around.

Jesse Friedman: Right. It’s not just the customer, but it’s aligning yourself with the customer’s success or the customer’s delight, whatever it might be. That’s where I think hosting companies who are providing, not just WordPress in general, anybody, and this kind of goes beyond hosting as a whole, but the more you can do to create KPIs or you’re creating internal goals and things like that, that don’t only reflect your bottom line or the goals that you create for your own company, but the way in which you provide services to your end customers and make sure that they’re successful, I think that’s beneficial to everybody. So it is really interesting that you’re focused on that in AI and it sounds like what you’re doing is not only making it for yourself to use, but you’re making it available. So any hosting company would be able to benefit from it. And so that’s a little bit different too, which is that most hosting companies right now who are investing in AI are doing it for themselves. And it’s not going to become available to third parties. And I think there’s something really powerful in the way in which hosting or companies or services provide solutions to many different companies at once. So the same way that WP Cloud providing services to not just Automattic hosting companies, but to third party hosting companies, is that we get to see how WordPress is used by a wide variety of customers across the globe. You’ll be able to do the same thing in that you’ll get feedback on your support system, not just from your single silo of the one hosting company that you’re operating, but from a variety of different places and then maybe you’re even making, you know, better hosting support more accessible to more companies out there, which then proliferates the idea that WordPress and that first experience being a better experience is more accessible to everyone as well.

Konrad Keck: Exactly.

Jesse Friedman: That means that you’re developing relationships with hosting companies and you have your finger on the pulse of everything going on, and I think that’s also reflected in your media outlet, we’ll call it a media outlet, but it’s a blog, it’s a website, it’s a podcast, it’s a bunch of other things. Right. But that’s Web Hosting Today. Right.

Konrad Keck: That’s right.

Jesse Friedman: And so, yeah, so let’s use this opportunity to kind of transition into that conversation. Talk to me about like, how is it that you’re keeping abreast of everything that’s going on in the industry, how has it become, you know, one of the better or most frequent traffic sites for people in this industry, where do you see it going in a few years, and who should be paying attention to it?

Konrad Keck: Right. Yeah. So as I mentioned, we founded Web Hosting Today last year with, because, you know, we were as we are working with all these solutions for the web hosting industry, we’ve noticed that we actually don’t have an easy way to get information on what’s going on. Right? And we noticed that, hey, maybe we should make a news portal about it and spread the word share what’s going on. And that’s how we started. And with the podcast, as well, it was also something new to me, it was very exciting to like for you as well, you know, you have your podcast, it’s, you know, you learn stuff. It’s an exciting adventure itself. And I had, I think it was maybe 14 episodes recorded so far and every time I speak with someone I learn a lot. Like when I was a software provider, I always had this bias of software and like how things work in the back, and I never had the full overview on how the business operates itself. So having that podcast and speaking with all the people, you know, for example, the recent episode was with Del Lemos, you know, the CEO of one of the bigger hosting groups and getting insights from this guy is opening your eyes on so many aspects. You know, we even were talking about the AI, that some of the things that we were talking about is what we have incorporated into our product. So it gave me the better overview what’s happening, which makes my solutions much better for my customers, which are hosting providers. Right. And yeah, so looking at web hosting industry, if you are asking me about like, I dunno, what’s going on, or like the industry itself, I would say that it has its good things or good sides, bad sides. I think that for us as we are enthusiast about technology and trying to innovate these companies. I think that the biggest problem from our perspective is that web hosting industry is pretty slow, meaning that we are talking about the technology industry. Really, even though it’s a technology industry, they are very slow in innovating and adapting new technologies, which is a little paradox. Right. And I think I would also say that COVID has been a little catalyst for that. Because when it happened, there were so many businesses going online at the time that you just, you had a hosting company, you had your best years ever. Like people were just coming to you and every company was growing.

Jesse Friedman: Yeah. Every restaurant needed to have an online presence. Every service needed to have explanation of their COVID policies online. Everything happened that way. Yeah.

Konrad Keck: So you look at your numbers and you say, Hey, well, we’re doing great. I mean, we never had such a growth, but you didn’t notice the big, how do you say, the big elephant in the room that, you know, yes, your customer base was growing. But in general, if you look at the web hosting industry, it started losing to some extent, it started losing with those big providers, SaaS providers and like ready-made solutions like Wix, Squarespace, Shopify. People started, you know, if you look at, because so many businesses went online, WordPress is great if you use an agency. Again, I’m gonna use my wife as an example. She launched her site as she’s selling online courses of some beauty things with lashes. She doesn’t get into that, right? But the only reason why she was using WordPress is that she found another course with someone explaining how to set up WordPress, and she was literally clicking exactly the same button. If the page was a little different, I dunno, different version of WordPress or a plugin. She, I was stepping in and helping her set things up, right? So adapting WordPress is, it is not easy for customers. Right. And this, that’s also one of the reasons why I think Panalfar has a huge is, is one answers to that is to make it easy. Right? Make it easy to launch a site or

Jesse Friedman: Well, well,

Konrad Keck: One thing that you mentioned in the last episode about Panel Alpha’s advantage is that it’s not focused on the hosting, it’s focused on the site. And I think that’s a common thing that we’re seeing with the Shopify and the Squarespace companies in the world, right? You go to Squarespace, you don’t really learn much about hosting. You learn about the services that they’re providing, and hosting just happens to come along with it as an ancillary thing. It’s same thing with Shopify. You can, if you do the research, you can figure out exactly what type of boxes they’re on and the CPUs that they’re using and things like that. But that’s not what they’re selling. That’s not the forefront of what it is that.

Jesse Friedman: Nobody cares.

Konrad Keck: No. Right, exactly. And so you have to be a very particular type of agency or trying to service a very specific type of client if you’re gonna be caring about that. For the most part, people are just much more focused on can I be successful with this setup? Are you gonna give me all the tools that I need to be successful? Yeah, absolutely. Sorry, keep going.

Konrad Keck: Yeah, so what I wanted to say, I know it’s a long one, but what I’m trying to say is that now we hear more and more hosting companies that are saying that, well, things have been stuck for one, two years, and you talk more with them and now, only now they are investing more into some products. They are starting thinking about products. Things are no longer that easy in this industry. If you keep things as they were 10 years ago, you need to move forward and you need to innovate. You know, GoDaddy is no longer calling themselves a hosting company. They are now a product company, a tech company, right? Because they are modeled to focus on solutions for the customers, not about servers and what’s happening in the background. As we said, nobody really cares what’s running in the background. I want my site to run. You had a recent episode with Oliver about security of a site.

Jesse Friedman: Yeah.

Konrad Keck: My wife doesn’t know what an FTP is. She doesn’t know how to upload on the server. Right. How is she capable of understanding that a certain plugin that she installed two years ago, or even was automatically installed for some reason, has a security gap? Is this really her responsibility to take care of that? Right. So I think the biggest problem of this industry is that they are slow. It feels that they are finally catching up with the needs of the customers and thinking that customers shouldn’t care about hosting in the essence, right? This, I think this is the biggest opportunity in innovating and getting the edge compared to many, many, many providers out there.

Jesse Friedman: Yeah, no, I agree. I think that there is a big shift happening in the industry, and it sounds like what you’re saying is that Web Hosting Today is covering that. And it sounds like it’s really important for people who are working in the web hosting industry to be paying attention to what you’re publishing on there. It also sounds like if you’re using hosting, but you’re not in the hosting industry, it’s also probably really important for you to be watching what you’re publishing on that site too, because it keeps you abreast of all the things that are happening in terms of innovations and things like that. But I think you’re absolutely right. I think that one of the better things about WP Cloud and pairing it with something like Panel Alpha is that we’re able to make it available for other companies out there to provide much more niche solutions. And I’m not talking about specifically WordPress. What I’m talking about is that agencies out there do a very good job of solving very specific problems for very specific industries. I know of a lot of agencies out there who will do things like just build real estate websites or just build lawyer websites or whatever. And then they’re able to provide the services in that way. And so what we could actually see happen in this industry is that you take WordPress as a service by WP Cloud and Panel Alpha or somewhere else, some other cloud platform, and you start to see it replicating over and over again where these individual, smaller companies are servicing these very specific needs and then not selling hosting. They’re selling a solution. They’re selling an end product where it’s finished and it’s done. And so if you wanna launch a blog, go to WordPress.com. ‘Cause every single, you know, that’s where its genesis was. And that’s, you know, we’re always gonna be one of the best companies out there for publishing a blog. If you are, you know, if you’re gonna be launching an e-commerce website on WooCommerce and maybe there would eventually be a place where you can go and you can say I wanna start an e-commerce website for my retail mom and pop shop that sells t-shirts and ships it globally, you know, all over the world. Give me the starter package for that. And you don’t have to go to Shopify to do that. You could just go to this specific hosting company that focuses specifically on that and with a launch of a button you have all that done. And then you’re taking all of the management and the complex parts of hosting and you’re offloading it to the companies that are the best in the world at it. And then you as a hosting company are focused on providing these great experiences for these end customers. And I think solving this in a very diverse way, because I think the same thing that we’ve run into, which we talked about earlier, which is the consolidation of hosts, the consolidation of panels, you’re gonna run into that issue as well. When you look at Shopify trying to service every e-commerce website in the world across the globe, it’s not gonna work, right? People are always gonna look for alternatives and look for very specific solutions. And so I think that is a really great and innovative way that people could start moving towards solving these problems in the future. At home, if you’re listening, if you’re running an agency and you’re doing these types of things, think about branching out into a hosting company. If you’re a registrar or something else out there that is touching domains or touching websites and you’re thinking about hosting, the barrier of entry is much lower. The tools and services are available to you, support’s becoming easier. I think those are the lessons of this podcast and I think it’s actually a really great place for us to say thank you Konrad, for joining and having another great episode where we covered a lot of really in-depth topics. I’m actually gonna be, you know, shortly taking a three month sabbatical, but when I get back, I would love to have you come back and talk to us about what else is changing in the industry and kind of give us an update on all the different, the 50 different projects you’re founding and working on at any given time.

Konrad Keck: Yeah, absolutely. So thank you for having me. And yeah, if you need any insights about the industry, contact me.

Jesse Friedman: Awesome. All right, thank you Konrad. Everybody at home, in the show notes, you’ll see links to various projects that Konrad’s working on and ways to get in contact. And thank you very much. Look forward to talking to you all at the next episode.

Konrad Keck: Thank you.